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	<title>Comments on: The OU and Aliyah</title>
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	<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/</link>
	<description>If you’d believe that, you’d be wrong.</description>
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		<title>By: Garnel Ironheart</title>
		<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/comment-page-1/#comment-360</link>
		<dc:creator>Garnel Ironheart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occidentalisraeli.com/?p=1753#comment-360</guid>
		<description>As a resident in one such &quot;small community&quot; permit me to share my thoughts.

1) You&#039;re absolutely right about the need to bolster Israel&#039;s small communities.  

2) The reality is that most frum Jews in Canada/U.S. are not planning aliyah, either for personal, professional or financial reasons.  This is not right but it is the reality.

3) Life in the &quot;big community&quot; has its benefits and its drawbacks.  In a time of recession the drawbacks like high day school tuition, social classifying based on the hat you wear, and the cost of living in a big city all come to the fore.  Small communities may not have all the ammenities the big ones do but they offer unique opportunities - a chance for social interaction with non-religious Jews and other religious Jews who don&#039;t share one&#039;s hashkafah, a more affordable standard of living and a chance to be more involved with the children&#039;s education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a resident in one such &#8220;small community&#8221; permit me to share my thoughts.</p>
<p>1) You&#8217;re absolutely right about the need to bolster Israel&#8217;s small communities.  </p>
<p>2) The reality is that most frum Jews in Canada/U.S. are not planning aliyah, either for personal, professional or financial reasons.  This is not right but it is the reality.</p>
<p>3) Life in the &#8220;big community&#8221; has its benefits and its drawbacks.  In a time of recession the drawbacks like high day school tuition, social classifying based on the hat you wear, and the cost of living in a big city all come to the fore.  Small communities may not have all the ammenities the big ones do but they offer unique opportunities &#8211; a chance for social interaction with non-religious Jews and other religious Jews who don&#8217;t share one&#8217;s hashkafah, a more affordable standard of living and a chance to be more involved with the children&#8217;s education.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-Yehudah</title>
		<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/comment-page-1/#comment-357</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-Yehudah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occidentalisraeli.com/?p=1753#comment-357</guid>
		<description>Hmm...oh that&#039;s right, Shalem Center.  Ariel was/is connected with them.  Never mind.  :-}</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230;oh that&#8217;s right, Shalem Center.  Ariel was/is connected with them.  Never mind.  :-}</p>
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		<title>By: Cori</title>
		<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/comment-page-1/#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator>Cori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occidentalisraeli.com/?p=1753#comment-356</guid>
		<description>BY- I&#039;m pretty familiar with  them. I was on the Steering Committee during their first summer (2007) and stay in touch with them.  Yossi Klein HaLevi and Michael Oren both spoke that summer, and Daniel Gordis as well-- I think that they have a good relationship with Shalem Center people.  Why does Yossi speaking there surprise you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BY- I&#8217;m pretty familiar with  them. I was on the Steering Committee during their first summer (2007) and stay in touch with them.  Yossi Klein HaLevi and Michael Oren both spoke that summer, and Daniel Gordis as well&#8211; I think that they have a good relationship with Shalem Center people.  Why does Yossi speaking there surprise you?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-Yehudah</title>
		<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/comment-page-1/#comment-355</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-Yehudah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occidentalisraeli.com/?p=1753#comment-355</guid>
		<description>Cori, I thought you made some good points.

How familiar are you with PresenTense?  I&#039;m surprised Yossi HaLevy was speaking there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cori, I thought you made some good points.</p>
<p>How familiar are you with PresenTense?  I&#8217;m surprised Yossi HaLevy was speaking there.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-Yehudah</title>
		<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/comment-page-1/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-Yehudah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occidentalisraeli.com/?p=1753#comment-354</guid>
		<description>SJ, not to get to apocolyptic on you, but these &quot;communities&quot; have been suffering spitually, and unfortunately, the physical suffering may increase soon.

I sometimes meet secular Jews here in Israel with whom I identify more or feel more connected than some religious tourists, not often, but sometimes.

&quot;There is no Torah like the Torah of Eretz Yisrael.&quot; Bereshith Rabba.

Even some secular Jews who have knowledge of Torah and have actually investigated their Land have something that is just missing outside of Israel, whether in Bnei Aqiva or a Haredi yeshiva.

It&#039;s definitely missing from the OU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SJ, not to get to apocolyptic on you, but these &#8220;communities&#8221; have been suffering spitually, and unfortunately, the physical suffering may increase soon.</p>
<p>I sometimes meet secular Jews here in Israel with whom I identify more or feel more connected than some religious tourists, not often, but sometimes.</p>
<p>&#8220;There is no Torah like the Torah of Eretz Yisrael.&#8221; Bereshith Rabba.</p>
<p>Even some secular Jews who have knowledge of Torah and have actually investigated their Land have something that is just missing outside of Israel, whether in Bnei Aqiva or a Haredi yeshiva.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s definitely missing from the OU.</p>
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		<title>By: Cori</title>
		<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/comment-page-1/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>Cori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occidentalisraeli.com/?p=1753#comment-353</guid>
		<description>Hence the fact that none of this is very surprising...  Still, I *was* surprised that they&#039;re so open about this. Since it&#039;s so inconsistent with halacha, I&#039;d think that they&#039;d try harder to disguise this objective.

Btw, nice job inserting a French phrase. Much appreciated ;)  Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hence the fact that none of this is very surprising&#8230;  Still, I *was* surprised that they&#8217;re so open about this. Since it&#8217;s so inconsistent with halacha, I&#8217;d think that they&#8217;d try harder to disguise this objective.</p>
<p>Btw, nice job inserting a French phrase. Much appreciated <img src='http://occidentalisraeli.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/comment-page-1/#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occidentalisraeli.com/?p=1753#comment-352</guid>
		<description>BY- Thanks.

Cori - The OU&#039;s raison d&#039;être is diaspora Judaism. Therefore they are forced to take views that are clearly incompatible with their declared ideology and faith.

SJ - I am not favoring Orthodox communities over other kinds Jewish communities, or vice versa. As a Zionist, I believe all Jews (Orthodox or not) should make aliyah. While it is not the basis for my view, it is the view of &lt;i&gt;Halacha&lt;/i&gt;, as well. The OU, as an Orthodox Jewish organization, should not be pushing for Jews to settle outside of Israel. Their stated religious beliefs should lead them to encourage Jews to move to Israel, not elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BY- Thanks.</p>
<p>Cori &#8211; The OU&#8217;s raison d&#8217;être is diaspora Judaism. Therefore they are forced to take views that are clearly incompatible with their declared ideology and faith.</p>
<p>SJ &#8211; I am not favoring Orthodox communities over other kinds Jewish communities, or vice versa. As a Zionist, I believe all Jews (Orthodox or not) should make aliyah. While it is not the basis for my view, it is the view of <i>Halacha</i>, as well. The OU, as an Orthodox Jewish organization, should not be pushing for Jews to settle outside of Israel. Their stated religious beliefs should lead them to encourage Jews to move to Israel, not elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: SJ</title>
		<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/comment-page-1/#comment-351</link>
		<dc:creator>SJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occidentalisraeli.com/?p=1753#comment-351</guid>
		<description>I think it makes sense for there to be jewish communities all over the united states, with different kinds of jews not just orthodox.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it makes sense for there to be jewish communities all over the united states, with different kinds of jews not just orthodox.</p>
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		<title>By: Cori</title>
		<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/comment-page-1/#comment-350</link>
		<dc:creator>Cori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occidentalisraeli.com/?p=1753#comment-350</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t even remotely surprising.  I remember Yossi Klein HaLevi giving a couple of years ago (at PresenTense) and making the point that if Israel, as a nation, fails-- Judaism as a religion also fails.  I ended up staying late with a prominent OU-moron and debating this.  His argument? If people keep mitzvot, G-d will keep his promise of a great nation (a simplified version, obviously) and then everyone will return from the galut to eretz yisrael....  so for now, it&#039;s more important to foster vibrant religious communities with people that keep mitzvot than it is to build a nation.

We talked a bit about Lech Lecha, and the idea that despite G-d&#039;s promises to Avram, Avram had to endure hardships, think critically, work, work, and work in order to reap the benefit&#039;s of G-d&#039;s promises.   Mr. OU said that the modern equivalent of this in relation to Israel is not necessarily to be in Israel physically &#039;building the nation&#039;- but that &#039;most rabbinical authorities agree&#039; it is more of a service to the land of Israel to live a halachic life, regardless of where you live it.

This was one person, and I sincerely hope that it doesn&#039;t represent the general stance (or official, for that matter) of the OU, but I&#039;m wary of them.  It&#039;s true that most olim- from the States  for example- that make aliyah are from Orthodox communities, but when I look at the OU, I sometimes feel like the less religious movements actually do more  to encourage aliyah than the OU. Sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t even remotely surprising.  I remember Yossi Klein HaLevi giving a couple of years ago (at PresenTense) and making the point that if Israel, as a nation, fails&#8211; Judaism as a religion also fails.  I ended up staying late with a prominent OU-moron and debating this.  His argument? If people keep mitzvot, G-d will keep his promise of a great nation (a simplified version, obviously) and then everyone will return from the galut to eretz yisrael&#8230;.  so for now, it&#8217;s more important to foster vibrant religious communities with people that keep mitzvot than it is to build a nation.</p>
<p>We talked a bit about Lech Lecha, and the idea that despite G-d&#8217;s promises to Avram, Avram had to endure hardships, think critically, work, work, and work in order to reap the benefit&#8217;s of G-d&#8217;s promises.   Mr. OU said that the modern equivalent of this in relation to Israel is not necessarily to be in Israel physically &#8216;building the nation&#8217;- but that &#8216;most rabbinical authorities agree&#8217; it is more of a service to the land of Israel to live a halachic life, regardless of where you live it.</p>
<p>This was one person, and I sincerely hope that it doesn&#8217;t represent the general stance (or official, for that matter) of the OU, but I&#8217;m wary of them.  It&#8217;s true that most olim- from the States  for example- that make aliyah are from Orthodox communities, but when I look at the OU, I sometimes feel like the less religious movements actually do more  to encourage aliyah than the OU. Sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-Yehudah</title>
		<link>http://occidentalisraeli.com/2009/06/24/ou-aliyah/comment-page-1/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-Yehudah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occidentalisraeli.com/?p=1753#comment-349</guid>
		<description>B&quot;H

Don&#039;t even get me started.  You are absolutely correct to point this out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B&#8221;H</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t even get me started.  You are absolutely correct to point this out.</p>
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