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Terrorism Pays

The arrest of an allegedly abusive mother. That is the excuse for the continued Haredi summer riots in Jerusalem, following the ones over a parking lot.

The mother, a member of the anti-Israel Neturei Karta faction, was released from custody today, and placed under house arrest. This decision was made by the Jerusalem Magistrate Court, despite the prosecution’s request for remand.

These riots show a complete disregard for Jewish commandments that are not ritual in nature, but they are fairly successful. This is not the first group to have learned that it is not very difficult to bend the will of the Israeli government.

There is a world of difference between these rioters and wholesale murderers of Jews. Nevertheless, at the end of the day, capitulation is capitulation, and the message is clear: Terrorism is a rewarding venture in Israel.

Clarification: I am well aware that the rioters represent a minority within the diverse Haredi community. Nevertheless, the silence coming from the Haredi leadership is deafeaning.

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15 Comments

  1. Dan says:

    I prefer to think of terrorism more as low intensity warfare or asymmetric warfare. In scholarly literature on this topic it is clear that not only does this form of warfare work, but is often preferable to standard symmetric warfare.

  2. Ben-Yehudah says:

    B”H

    1. I hope “settlers” are paying attention. I doubt it, though.

    2. Turning out to be true or not, when I hear something,…anything about Haredim, or “settlers” I automatically assume it’s a lie, until I confirm it from other sources. Even the JPost is no friend to Haredim nor real settlers.

  3. mary says:

    benyehuda, those haredi rioters are no friends of settlers either. they are neturei karta, the same people who meet with ahmadinejad to talk about israel’s impending destruction.

  4. Ben-Yehudah says:

    Mary, I’m not sure where you live, but I live in Israel.

    1. All I said was that settlers should be paying attention.

    2. Not everyone out there is “Netura Karta.” Netura Karta is an organization, not a blanket phrase meaning anti-Zionist.

    3. I, am a Zionist, but that does not mean I am not critical of the state. I am critical, and I am no fan.

    4. I believe very strongly that one should not believe ANYthing the mainstream media says about Haredim or settlers. We must have confirmation from other sources. For example, one Haredi paper charedi.co.il claims that the child in question was dying of a terminal illness.

    I am more inclined to believe a Haredi than a Torah-basher.

    5. The bulk of the Haredi community is not the enemy. The Eruv Rav is.

    6. The settlers must get together with the Haredim, and leave the mamlakhtim in the dust. The haredi youth is ripe for listening, and for learning halacha regarding the land. We must teach them.

  5. Lady-Light says:

    Ben Yehuda, I respectfully disagree. Haredim seem to be totally intolerant and disrespectful of others, to the point of disregarding danger to human life: they fulfil their agenda, either by verbally and psychologically abusing women to ride at the back of buses (even when buses are not marked ‘Haredi’) or committing violence in the streets, overturning and burning dumpsters and throwing rocks, or throwing bags of garbage on teenage girls (dressed modestly) on a Kvutzat Yavneh school trip into Meah She’arim, as was done to my daughter years ago. Sometimes some of this violence is committed on Shabbat.
    As was mentioned by several different bloggers, there is too much emphasis placed on ‘ritual,’ supposed ‘mitzvot bein adam la-Makom,’ and not enough placed on ‘mitzvot bein adam le-havero.’
    By their disrespectful behavior towards others not like them (and even some in their own group), they ultimately show a great disrespect to Ribono shel Olam, and their ‘rituals’ are not worth a groosh.

  6. Ben-Yehudah says:

    LL, I certainly take issue with Haredi leadership.

    I’m just saying that I am for ahduth yisrael, and not summarily giving up on one segment of Am Yisrael.

    If you think that the Palestinian Post, Ma’aravi, Idiot Aharonoth, and Am HaAretz can give an objective and accurate

    There are isolated incidents of nuts harassing women on the bus. I ride Mehadrin buses often, I have never seen anything of the sort. Quite the contrary, I often see women and girls stuck in the front on crowded buses, and no one bats an eyelash

    {BTW, Mehadrin buses are not for the Haredim, they’re for the non-Haredi and secular dvqaniks like Shulamit Aloni who don’t know better. http://esseragaroth.blogspot.c.....buses.html}

    Do you ride such buses, or are you relying on the motzi shem ra’ of Torah bashing Eruv Rav controlled Israeli news media?

    I think you’re making prejudicial generalizations myself.

    What else exactly to you disagree with from my previous comments above?

  7. LB says:

    Dan – If you do look at it as asymmetrical warfare, that is what you see here, no?

    Ben-Yehudah – I doubt she is, but even if the mother is completely innocent – the reaction of the protesters is unconscionable. And regarding “Mehadrin” buses – even once is unacceptable. Beating women – where is the outcry? This sort of thing has happened on non-”Mehadrin” lines, as well (#2 in Jerusalem, e.g.).

  8. Ben-Yehudah says:

    Why do you doubt her innocence? Because of what AmHaretz, Ma’aravi, Idiot Aharanot newspapers, or the Palestinian Post reported?

    Mehadrin buses – once unacceptable? I don’t argue with this, with one exception which I’ll mention below.

    The protesters actions? I lead toward agreeing with but NOT because of what was reported in the leftist and anti-religious media {yes, the JPost is anti-religious, albeit right of center}. I witnessed the riots, and I have heard condemnation from the Haredi communities themselves and know that many were there to reek havoc with no constructive purpose at all.

    The minute the like of Shulamit Eloni get onto a Mehadrin bus in short shorts and halter top and does things like touching men on purpose and any number of provocative things, I just hope I’m there to support ahduth between haredim and mithnah’lim. …and that’s all I’m gonna say.

  9. Dan says:

    LB,

    Yes, I do in fact see this as a case of asymmetrical warfare. The CIA practiced it in 1980s to overthrow Nicaragua’s government. I recommend you take a look at this pamphlet (keep clicking on images to keep going). It becomes pretty clear to me after looking at the pamphlet, that an intellectually honest person at CIA would classify what you are writing about as asymmetrical warfare.

    My point was that it isn’t really surprising that it works. The CIA knew it works. Just because it is applied at a different place and time doesn’t change the fact that it is effective. Often it is preferable because it’s cheaper and less public than a war.

  10. Lady-Light says:

    Ben-Yehudah, you said (in your response to my comment, above)

    1) You have a problem with Haredi leadership – so do I (read below)

    2) You said that you do not want to give up on any segment of Am Yisrael, that you are for achdut. Neither do I.

    If you read my short post on the initial Haredi riots in Yerushalayim, I wrote: What is the answer for all Jerusalemites to live side by side, in tolerance and respect? (see the actual post here.)

    FACT: The problem is that it is the Haredim who are NOT for “achdut.” They want everyone to follow their religious beliefs, and are totally intolerant of and violent towards other Jews who don’t and who just want to live peacefully.

    And if you tell me it’s ‘only a fringe group,’ (back to point #1) where are their leaders to tell them NOT to act this way, that it is against the Torah?

    And where is civil LAW in this issue? (Answer: Israel is not really a lawful society, as is the U.S.; people break or flaunt the law constantly, often the law is not enforced and authorities look the other way.)

    The excuse it’s ‘only a fringe group’ contributes to tolerance of the evil (yes, it is evil) behavior, and apathy with regard to doing anything to stop it.

    2) re “Palestinian Post, Ma’aravi, Idiot Aharonoth, and Am HaAretz giving accurate reports (very cute, btw), not necessarily. But I don’t take Yated Neeman at face value, either.

    3) I do not currently live in Israel & thus do not ride mehadrin buses. I have on occasion ridden such buses in the past (28 years ago), but I prefer not to. I strongly believe that this kind of forced separation of the sexes is ridiculously unnecessary at best, and authoritarian and coercive, at worst. It promotes the ultra-Orthodox ‘double-standard’ of men having total authority and preference and women being relegated to second-class citizens. That is not my Judaism.

    What I found interesting about your comment to mine is the manner in which you said it, with a loaded question: “Do you ride such buses, or are you relying on the motzi shem ra’ of Torah bashing Eruv Rav controlled Israeli news media?
    That phraseology is ‘loaded’ with a questionable presupposition: that the media reporting these incidents are merely ‘motzi-im shem ra’ and ‘Torah-bashing Erev rav controllling media.’ (btw, the term is Erev rav, not ‘eruv rav’).

    4) The hospital, from what I read, refuted the Haredi claim that the child in question (-of the mother who was arrested for malnutrition) had a terminal disease.

    5) I too, am a Zionist, and also have my problems with the State. However, I still support the State of Israel, as because of it we now have an excellent armed forces (IDF) to defend ourselves, should anyone try to perpetrate (chas ve-shalom) another Shoah against the Jewish people.

    6) You wrote, “The settlers must get together with the Haredim, and leave the mamlakhtim in the dust. The haredi youth is ripe for listening, and for learning halacha regarding the land. We must teach them.

    I feel that is a most naive statement; the ‘settlers get together with the Haredim?’ the Haredim will not get together with anybody who is not of their ilk.

    In short, I believe in the ‘live and let live’ principle. Whoever wants to be dati, should be able to be dati, and we cannot force dati’ut on hiloniim; we can only show them by example, and that means behavior showing mitzvot bein adam le-havero, NOT only ritual.

    http://jta.org/news/article/20.....it-shemesh

  11. Lady-Light says:

    Forgot to mention that link above. It is a story about the religious coercion and violent intolerance committed by an ultra-Haredi group in Ramat Beit Shemesh Bet.

    How many “small fringe groups” are there, anyway?!

  12. [...] Occidental Israeli discusses the Haredim and says thatTerrorism Pays. Agree or disagree? Go read it and let him know. Ask Lady Light about Civil Strife in Jerusalem: [...]

  13. Ben-Yehudah says:

    I don’t think there is a question that you and I agree on several issues.

    I want to emphasize [because maybe I wasn't clear enough] that many Haredi youth are just as fed up, or at least confused, with haredi leadership

    Whether the percentage of Haredi youth ripe for receiving answers to their unanswered questions {not buying “da’as Torah” anymore} is 5 percent or 10 percent or 80 percent is open to debate. I certainly have no idea how small or how large this number is. But I know for a fact that they exist.

    The same goes for adults interested in ahduth and frustrated with their leadership, although I am sure the number is much smaller.

    The spelling on Erev Rav in English is irrelevant. I spell it the way you say on my blog anyway, as it does not have a “waw” in Hebrew.

    I derive my lack of trust from the concept of Kaf zekhuth set down in the Mishnah. The Ramba”m comments on three case scenarios. The first two most people know. The last, politically incorrect one deals with those who must NOT be trusted.

    The separation between men and women, and what is or isn’t Judaism can be dealt with another time.

  14. LB says:

    Ben-Yehudah – I doubt it because I don’t think it is probable that the police arrested a mother of a sick child just because of the community to which she belongs. I am open to contrary evidence, of course.

    Your point regarding the settlers joining forces with Haredim, however, is perhaps a nice idea, but not much more than that. As far as I know, the Haredi community rejects the exercise of Jewish sovereignty in Israel until the Messiah arrives. Not to mention
    their insistence at letting others shoulder the load of defending Israel.

    Dan – you’re right, but my point is that the authorities lack backbone. I think It works in this case not because of a successful struggle, but because one side wants it more – or at least acts like it.

  15. Ben-Yehudah says:

    {CAPS for emphasis, not shouting}

    Why isn’t anyon actually reading what I write?

    Haredi YOUTH who are disenfranchised and who do buy the Haredi “party line,” because they see its holes.

    Four years, EVERY Shabbat in Tapuah, we would host 5 to 30 of such young men.

    I guarantee you, it is not necessary to instruct me on Haredi hashqafah, especially as I have been implying my awareness of this throughout this thread.

    I will assume that was for the benefit of your other readers.

    There are of course few, but others will follow.

    Cops? You’re probably right,…this time. They’re just dupes following orders from above.

    I will remind you of the Ramba”m’s 3rd, [politically incorrect] comment on Kaf z’khuth:

    When a rasha does something apparently positive, one must assume he is doing it for ulterior motives.

    There are rasha’im in the government, if haven’t yet noticed. I would not put ANYTHING past them, such as provocation.

    A final note, speaking of Mashiah, the Kol HaTor {the last Hevrutha of the GR”A}, along with the GR”A say that this guelah will parallel the geulah from Egypt in many ways, including the percentage of survivors,…20 percent.

    How this percentage will be counted, I do not know. I am not optimistic.

    There are very few Torah loyalists {vs. undying State loyalists} in Yo”Sh, but are gaining ground, as are the disenfranchised Haredi youth. Add those to Beitar Yerushalayim fans and other Arsim, and we’ll be unstoppable.

    I have no doubt the M/O’s are more frightened that the radical leftists.

    Such Haredi youth may not find the State acceptable, but when reminded that bdi’avad, now that we have it, we can’t give up land and power to enemies. They soon learn that many of us settlers are not as much interested in the state as we are in Jewish sovereignty over the Land.

    There is a question as to how Jewish the State is or will be, if the rashaim had their way.

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